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Steve Irwin · Joined: 22 Aug 2009 Posts: 397

I wonder if there is a trend for junior cyclists to do more training than in the past. In swimming it is common for the best 15 year olds to perform to an exceptionally high standard, but they will have spent many years training 20 hours a week by that age.

For example, the fastest 15 year old in 2009 for LC 1500m freestyle did 16:15. Looking at Masters age group all-time world top 10 rankings, only one swimmer in 25-29 has ever gone faster than that, and he only went 2 seconds faster. Nobody in any older age group has ever gone faster than that 15 year old.

So while in cycling, we currently see it as unusual for a 15 year old to beat 30+ year olds, in swimming it is actually the norm, so there doesn't seem to be any physiological barrier to people performing exceptionally well at that age.

Ben Cousins · Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 1402 Location: Stockholm

The gearing restriction is the issue, right?

nickhussey · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 3132 Location: Wimbledon

I doubt it's more training, but less/better quality. Juniors used to grow up on a diet of miles and more miles. Overtraining was very common. Specially as yoof is more susceptible innit. We were always told the more you train the faster you go, which as a cover-all training strategy, is going to improve them to a point, then wreck most people.
I'd say it's better training, with varied zones, periodisation and rest built in. And they're catching them young now.
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maryka · Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Posts: 1197 Location: Kingston

I'm glad they're giving dispensation to riders who can ride at that level and handle it. It's a bit ridiculous that Youth A (under 16) are riding the same length races time-wise as Youth E (under 8 ). Any 15 or 16 year old who makes the jump to Junior having never ridden longer than 30-odd minutes is in for a shock I'd say. Especially when you combine that with open road races and bigger fields. That's a huge learning curve when you turn 17, so no wonder guys like Maurice Burton are making sure their kids are well-prepared.

Obviously there's a line between enough and too much, but frankly I think the current BC handling of Youth riders actually hurts more than hinders most of them. Even the ones who aren't as good as Germain are going to have a huge step up at 17 to race senior if they aren't allowed to do it now.

I'd suggest that the less talented male Youth A and B riders who aren't quite ready for cat 3/4 seniors should be allowed to ride women's circuit races but I'd probably be flayed and burned for it. Laughing

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Lawrence · Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 1089 Location: Wimbledon

MickF · Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 183

nickhussey · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 3132 Location: Wimbledon

I'm sure Maryka knows a rise when she sees it. Took me a while. ....I must resurrect that helmet debate.... Wink

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James B · Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 1873 Location: Geneva

Any more baiting and I'll post the infamous "court jester" photo on here Lawrence Wink

nickhussey · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 3132 Location: Wimbledon

Pllllleeeeeease sir.
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nickg · Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 283

I seem to remember discussing with a wheeler boys racing in womens races, but I can't remember the details, can anyone help me?

Rupert the Bear · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 688

MickF · Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 183

Rupert the Bear · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 688

[quote="MickF"]

MickF · Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 183

andyedwards · Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 354

The most important thing you learn in under 16 crit races are skills. Cornering, sprinting, positioning, riding in a pack, etc. The younger guys I've seen in races who have started young have much better skills that guys who have started racing when they were older.

The jump from riding 40 minute crits at 15 to longer road races at 16 is not as big a jump as you might think. Most under 16s are probably doing longer training rides with older riders in addition to crits anyway. I was doing 60-80 mile club runs from the age of 13 but didn't ride my first road race until I was 16. The first month of two were about finding my feet, but as my season progressed I got better and from June onwards I was getting decent placings even in longer races - the most we were allowed to race as Juniors was 75 miles (which is still the same now, I think). As a Schoolboy (U16), I would train for the races I was doing - i.e. no more than 40 minutes, but as soon as my last Schoolboy season was over, I started to gravitate towards longer training riders; but nothing too excessive.

Some riders adapt to the Junior racks better than others. The bigger, more powerful guys were still big and powerful as Juniors and would ride well in crits and track events; but the skinny guys who got hammered in the U16 crits might find their niche in the tougher, longer road races. The late David Rayner was a good example of someone who was fairly average as a U16, but flourished as a Junior and Senior. Karl Smith, who was the same age, was an outstanding U16, but was never quite as good as David as a Junior/ Senior rider. Both Karl and David rode for GB and turned pro.

There seems to be more correlation between Junior rankings and future success than under 16 rankings and there are some riders who don't truly find their feet until they turn Senior. But this is a sport where riders don't reach full maturity until their late 20s.

A big problem at the moment is lack of road races specifically for Juniors. Outside of the national Junior series (what was the Peter Buckley series), it seems there are relatively few Junior specific races these days.